The driving standard on the server this week has been at an all time low. I could post a report for almost every race I've been in, but you don't want to go through all those, do you..?
So, I chose this one, because this driver really should not be doing things like this. Not to mid-race joiners, not to blue-flagged cars & certainly not to people ahead of him in the race.
At 3:44 Yek drives straight through me - doesn't even lift. We were racing for position. His race is more important than mine? No wonder GT class has a bad reputation.

Replay:
http://www.cargame.nl/dl.php?id=342522

And, while we're at it, Nils is being his usual gentlemanly self, wiping out another car with no apology, earlier that lap.

This really isn't any fun any more.

isnt Yek in AMT or smth like that ? funny that he does smth like this bcause i allways seen him be a clean/good/fair racer in CG..

hasnt watchd the replay so i dont know.

Well, Nils has been on the watchlist for some time. He should get a vacation this time.

Do not start with this again, I am really sick and tired of this kind of random slap.
In couple of occasions I gave evidence that at least XFG/XRG class driving is much, much worse. Really, cut the cr*p with this accusing a whole bunch of people just because you had problems with one or two of them.

you're missing the point kiyo;

he is a fast driver driving the GT2, therefore its perfectly acceptable for him to drive through you because you have no business being in his way in such a slow car.
The millisecond that he would have had to lift to be able to avoid you is too much of an inconvenience to him so he is entitled to ruin your race for being so damn rude as to be on the same track as him.
He doesn't have to lower himself to even bother apologising as you have no business being on the track and you aren't worthy of an apology, neither is Wivern who he also hits and pushes off the track with no apology.

*** Wakes up from the dream ***

What am I thinking? my head was up my ass for a minute there: Yek; what an incredibly rude and inconsiderate individual. There was no way on earth he could catch 1st/2nd place so there would be no harm in him lifting to avoid you or wivern. Harvey wouldn't be able to pass him at those points and harvey isn't the kind of driver to try for such dangerous passes in stupid places like that. There is absolutely no reason for him to have such a crappy attitude towards lower classes.

He did, and wait for you to make some place to pass... You going al little bit to the right, and he was thinking, ow I can pass now, but you make not enough place there. So yeah that is about 50 / 50 in my opinion.

And about Nils, he is really a moron on the track all the time. I think it is good to ban him now for 45 days. Also because its not the first report for him.

oO too much alcohol?

Typical slower car: unpredictable as hell. Inconsistent. Dangerous.
Seems like the same bullshit you are going over again ..................................

Maybe you look more closely as wivern was already mid race joiner and Yek was braking.

OK he shouldn't race as there is no chance on being 1st or 2nd but he should race because Harvey is behind him? Wow makes sense.

Kiyo moves slightly to the right offering the left side as the driving line would have been on the right side. Seems quite normal to this point. So Yek wants to overtake on the left side. So what Kiyo does wrong is staying somewhere in the middle of the road leaving not enough space. No point in blocking a faster car. Yek should have lifted of course but who predicts that kiyo would stay in the middle of the road. Avoidable from both.





Are you serious? We can say the same about kiyo there. "There is absolutely no reason for him to have such a crappy attitude towards higher classes"

I wasn't making a place for him to pass - why would I? I was holding my place in the race as I am allowed to do, and I wasn't doing this by suddenly 'closing the door', which would have been foolish, but by holding a clear line. I realise it isn't easy to just slow down behind a car, but he did drive through me with full throttle & pushed me out of the way.
I would like to know why he thought it was ok to do that.



Sorry Sermilan, I do respect your comments on this subject, but you misunderstand me here. I'm not saying all GT2 drivers are bad. Yes, there are many bad drivers in all the lower classes. I was trying to say that when a 'good' driver behaves like this, it looks bad for his class. And, of course, as the classes are so different, one car gets wiped out - mine. That's a case for not having such broad mixed classes (which I'd prefer) because time & time again, it just doesn't work out well for the lower class.

Show me where it say this in the rules, and I'll back down, otherwise, please don't tell me I'm wrong when I clearly am not.

Maby because its a faster car. When I,am driving XFG, and a GTR is coming closer to me (3 laps behind), I will make room that he can pass me easy so that is better for him, but also for me that he not hit me. When you did go a little bit more to the right there was no problem at all. That is the friendly aspect of racing.

When I,am driving a slower car than behind me, I always give room at a good moment so that nobody hit me.. When everyone do that, they can race without crashing for about 99 %..

He drives in another class. In a faster car. And you wanna tell me we should block each other? It's lap 3 and you wanna tell me you race against a faster car in a higher class for position? Common sense in racing

BTW for gandlers interest and someone else maybe as well:
1:37 Wivern dives into the hairpin FXO
1:40 MrOddBall dives into the hairpin XFR
6:20 Sjonnie and Jenk getting into a fight. Mid-race joiner of course. FXO + XFR
6:30 Jenk not locking the brakes. Causing Joske's race to be busted FXO


Wow seems slower cars have a more impressive bad reputation !!

Well kiyoshi I remember you saying that except the usual rules u try to be more cautious to avoid crashes, u did say that because it was the first thing that came to my mind when I saw the replay of u giving no space at all for a faster car when u did have space on a track with little to do that. The thing with you and gandlers as well isn't that somebody crashed u, it's that a GT2 driver, u two won't recognize I'm sure but just out of curiosity when was the last time u 2 reported on something else than a GT2 (like eXeYn pointed out) and since u never drive those cars u don't have any clue how they behave so it wold be fair to just shout up !

Thank you, eXeYn, proving my point

@kiyoshi - ok, but please avoid this phrases. This "bad GT2" drivers has become so stereotyped and completely senseless, as eXeYn proved just from this replay. If a GT2 did 1:37 and especially 1:40 accident, you'd all be allover "bad GT2 drivers", yet nobody said anything since they were from lower classes? You get the irony?

EDIT:
Yek rams you and you report him mentioning "No wonder GT class has a bad reputation."
Mr. Oddball rams Jenk in even worse manner and he doesn't even report him. Jenk has been known as one of the loudest supporters of banning GT2 from S2 server. This clearly proves that removing GT2 class won't solve the problem, but learning to behave on multi-class server will.
I really hope this is the last time we hear about "bad GT2 drivers", I'm really sick of this generalization.

3 points:
1. For whatever reason he hits the REAR (no the side or the front) of kiyo; therefor it was his fault plain and simple it's his reasonability not to hit the car in front
2. He could have lifted to reduce the effect of the contact
3. No apology despite 1 & 2 both being his fault

I'm sure kiyo would agree that the issue here is the lack of an apology rather than the incident.
Had he said sorry when he should have done then there would have been no report

Thats my opinion and if you don't Agee then there isn't a great deal I can do or care to do

After the race Yek say sorry. (10.20 replay time).

We said he should have lifted and we explained why he did not. And we explained why it was even avoidable by kiyo. Responsibility lies in both hands.

Wivern saw the blue flag for like 5 seconds still he chose an awkward line for the corner. Yek seemed to be surprised and still braked. Wasn't enough. Such a minor incident where Yek wanted to avoid it. But you really want to report everything? If yes then we probably have 4 new report threads as mentioned in a previous post of mine.

Yek apologised after the race. Even Harvey explained what Yek did.

IMO no intention there. He just misunderstood you, expected of you to go wider there to prepare for next corner in fwd car but you started turning on right and then just stayed right in front of him. I'm not sure what were you doing on that line, if i don't know better it looked like you tried to race/block him. Anyway, he showed nothing but respect to all drivers in that race (even to that crazy guy Nils), so i find this report against Yek pretty ridiculous


AMT is sermilans team You meant AMG aka Automotive Godz (I'm such a smartass )

It's nice to see different opinions. That's one of the reasons this is called a forum.

To the content of this accident: it seems to me that Kiyoshi is trying to do his best to let Yek pass.

But it also seems to me that Yek is trying to perform a clean pass as well.

So that would be called an accident, am I right?

What I do NOT like (and maybe that's the real point of this report by Kiyoshi) is that Yek continues racing without sending out at least a "sorry", when he clearly knows that he made a bad call there. Of course not on purpose (he misunderstood Kiyoshi's message) but in my modest opinion it's all a matter of manors to apologize if you fuck up someone elses race, even if it happens by mistake. From that view I understand this report and also this line:

I don't worry easily but I noticed some more than usual nooby behavior as well. I think it is because server is fully loaded (Cargame S1, Cargame GTR, anyone???????) and people come back from holiday breaks. However a signal to be more strict these days I suppose.

But this:

I disagree . Although things look rough a little more than usual, I have seen a lot of good racing as well. So don't you give it up Kiyoshi

The thing is... When you give faster cars some room to pass, and you brake a little bit when there is a crash in front of you, you can race for 99 % without crashing. At least that works for me. But when you think.. everyone behind me has to wait till there is place to pass on the straight orso.. Yeah people will try to over take you anyway with a crash as result.

ye.. :=)

now go and change ur name color again Fadex

That's exactly what happened, and 100% not my fault. Read the rules about overtaking - they do not say 'Try to overtake anyway, with a crash as result.'
Most of the above comments are covered by that.

I race fair & to the rules. If a car is behind me by lap 3 then there is no reason for me to compromise my line for him. He isn't allowed to crash through me.

There are lots of opinions on why he did this, but only he can say it, so please don't speak on his behalf.
He did apologise, but only when I asked him to explain his actions. He still hasn't explained...

Exactly, that is why I have taken umbrage at this incident. A quick sorry wouldn't have hurt and would have gone a long way (I'm pretty confident that Kiyo would agree on this).




Kiyo having to ask then a generic sorry in response; had he even been bothered to click on kiyo's name from the connection list to at least take the time to direct the apology at him it may have appeared more sincere. As it stands I don't class that as an apology worth counting.

Maybe a visual can help.

Link

That was simple try to block him, sorry but that's what it was.
Kiyo wasn't even going for racing line, but just closing the door... because before left turn, you'd otherwise go more to right side to have proper line thru corner.

This I race by the rules behaviour sucks hardcore as these rules don't include multi class racing and are nowhere near complete.

It was the first time you drove this line there. You always drove more to the right. So you clearly provoked an accident. Compromise your line omfg ... ridiculous. You were not on your race line.

You race fair? ROFL. Of course. Blocking a higher class car is called racing fair.

Noone told it's allowed to crash through you. Noone told it was okay what he did. But you are not innocent. IMHO I wouldn't have said Sorry right after the accident. In my eyes you provoked it too much, wanting to block. Noway you would deserve a sorry from me right after it happened. But that's just my view because I cannot speak for Yek.

In this particular part of the track I can understand taking the narrower line, tbh. It's easy to lose more time getting stuck on the outside of a passing car right there, and it's faster for the car ahead to not let the pass happen until the exit of that tight section. Ultimately, if there is no blue flag, never, ever assume anything will be given to you.

Also I want point out Nils who is a train wreck basically


Link

Yeah I am gonna put Nils on a plane for a 14 day vacation when I get home, different topic I will post that in

... and this plane go to Tunguzija!

I disagree. Optimal place was right there where he didn't let him pass. After that there is no place in next 4 turns, its just too long to wait for slower car. I see it this way. You drive slower car, i drive faster and you're slowing me down big time. Ok, I'll show you respect and give you one turn (if you notice, Yek did exactly that, fast right turn before crash). If you don't show me respect back and give me space to pass in next turn i'll make space (offc, in cleanest way i can). Offc most of that forcefully overtakes goes without much trouble, but this situation went bad, and you asked for it.

Anyway, you know whats the cleanest way to let faster car pass.. you take little bit wider line on braking just before turn. For example, its not hard to find some replay where Harvey drive slower car, often ufr. Thats how its done.

There was no reason to let anyone anything It's not his fault that a GT2 is behind him, he shouldn't have to lose any time at all because of others' mistakes. How much time the GT2 loses is entirely irrelevant, because track position.

... and this plane go to Tunguzija! .........................

@fadeaway: If you couldn't pass me on the first turn and pushed me out on the second, I would post a report here complaining about you.

On Topic: My opinion is that it was Yek's fault fundamentally, which could have been avoided with a "sorry" because I think he didn't expect kiyo not to open wide for the next turn (making it an accident). But if Yek did this intentionally, then it would have been entirely his fault and then I come to my reply to fadeaway's comment: You are not allowed, EVER, to make room. Sorry but this is in the rules as already stated in this topic.

And I think people are just making this a war between GT and slower classes. Sermillan once said something to which I agree completely: It is a multiclass race, and if everyone (all classes) gave a little accidents would decrease exponentially. Let it rest, please.

Fine no problem.. When you really think the track is only for you, don't complain than when other people push you out of the race with behave like that.


Everyone can see that he was trying to pass you on the left side.. Far away from the race line, but you closed the door for him. Everyone can see that.

Thanks Pringles for your comment.

For the others: I think I already stated, YES I was defending my position. I already said, I didn't 'close the door' - I never opened it.
Usually and if there is room, I'd let a 'faster' car through, but if he's behind me on lap 3, then he probably has damage (in this combo there were actually 2 GT2 cars which I passed) so I chose to hold the inside line & defend my position. I'm entitled to do that.

eXeYn: if we don't have rules covering multiclass, then we should create some, otherwise noone is right. We have to have rules everyone agrees with otherwise we have mayhem. If everyone agrees that all cars should jump out of the way of GT2s....sorry, faster cars, then so be it, but I won't be racing here. Until then, the car in front has priority. If a following car wants to pass, then he must do so cleanly. I expect people to race & pass with skill, not force.

Anyway, the bottom line is my race is f&cked AGAIN & his car isn't even scratched, so why should he care?

Defend position from what? Car IN OTHER CLASS by blocking him, and in the end provoking an accident?
Sorry, but that was stupid...
And you actually do admit you stayed on left on purpose to block him to 'defend your position'...

@mtrein you sound like gandlers which I suppose you have to because you are in the same team almost

This is very clear to me and that's why I put the video with the race line, Yek was doing an overtake "a la carte", it's how I do it how every professional or league driver does it almost all the time, you follow the driver in front for the draft and when you are close enough the "boost" from the draft is used to overtake quickly to get back in the race path, the one thing that can go wrong is if the driver in front blocks the overtake(doesn't stay on the race path) which is not allowed in racing, if watched F1 at Monza M. Schumacher did the same thing to Hamilton but not to crash him(like Yek did) he braked, after a few of this blocks Schumacher was informed by Brown to stop doing that because the race officials will penalize him.

So kiyoshi do us a favor and stop complaining for things that are actually your fault and if you want to talk racing rules... watch so racing first !

Show me one place in ANY rules of racing where this is true. Especially the rules which we have on the server.
I already said this above, but no-one has proved me wrong by showing me which rule I broke.
I didn't make contact with him - I drove straight & HE made contact with ME hoping I would move out of the way.

So you do US a favour & don't post with your own invented rules - that isn't helpful.

And are you seriously saying that I have to press 4 & turn on the 'race line' and follow that exactly? If so, could you show me some real life racing where this is done?

Well, no one bothered to write a rule of duels between different classes. No one ever thought that one day there would come a brave racer who would decide to defend his position to a car that can go 10 seconds per lap faster.

But there you go... you proved them wrong.

You cannot drive erratically, ignore blue flags, overtake under a yellow flag, deliberately obstruct a driver from a competing team, obstruct other drivers trying to overtake you, force a driver off the road in order to overtake them or to avoid being overtaken by them.

The 1998 Canadian Grand Prix provided two clear examples of violation of these rules. In one incident Damon Hill deliberately blocked Michael Schumacher in a contest for position. Hill was in the wrong here as this is forbidden under rules 1c, d and e.

c) "curves, as well as the approach and exit zones thereof, may be negotiated by the drivers in any way they wish, within the limits of the track. Overtaking, according to the circumstances, may be done either on the right or on the left."

"However, manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers such as premature direction changes, deliberate crowding of cars towards the inside or the outside of the curve or any other abnormal change of direction, are strictly prohibited and shall be penalised, according to the importance and repetition of the offences, by penalties ranging from a fine to the exclusion from the race."

Taken from the FIA rulebook with explanations by Ewan Tytler.


Link




Quote from http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/formula ... 872901.stm

What I'm more interested is... Kiyoshi, what did you expect to gain by blocking that GT2?
He's different class.. were you going to block him all the way thru?
What did YOU gain by it, except causing an accident?

I think the bigger question would be: Kiyoshi, did you block intentionally?

I don't think he did, he doesn't move left, he simply stops moving right... I don't use the racing line help either and that is what I used to do with the XFG on that corner, I never opened very much. I think this is an accident and people are just looking at it from a wrong point of view. No need to be so agressive, all sides.

@mike259: I sound like gandlers? How so? And even if I did, I am surprised you expect people from a given team to have the same opinion about everything. Take cargame.nl as an example, you get all sorts of point of views (just as it should be).

As Kiyoshi said it himself: 'so I chose to hold the inside line & defend my position'

@mtrein: yeah I was wrong about that, sorry, it looked a bit at first but I miss-judged

He who dares wins!
God thing most of the drivers ain't that stubborn to push their wrong attitude no matter what and waisting our time here

No GT2 car was 10 seconds per lap faster than me in that race. Maximum was more like 5 seconds on their best lap and 2 cars were only just 2sec per lap faster at best. I did in fact pass them in 2 races there. If that hadn't been the case I might have driven differently.
Anyway, thanks for the compliment. Honestly Sermilan, if this was a different combo, I probably would (and often do) make what room I could for a 'faster' car, but having more than one GT2 car already behind me in this race, and not seeming to have that much speed difference (for whatever reason) I chose to defend my position. In any case, there is no rule against this and our standard overtaking rules are perfectly in sync with this- a 'faster' car should have no problem overtaking a 'slower' car in exactly the same way a car in the same class would. That is, they should gain overlap & the right to a corner then pass, or pass on a straight where there is room. There is simply no excuse for hitting another car, unless they are swerving dangerously. I made no erratic moves here.



Check - I wasn't, I was driving in a straight line.

Check - no blue flags here.

Check - no yellow flag here.

Check - this appears to relate to a blue flag case.

Well, this is ambiguous, so from our own rules, which are clear regarding overtaking:
O-5: Ahead drivers have the right to choose any line down a straight. The ahead driver may make one move to block the opposing car, and one move to return to the racing line before the next corner - Unless the opposing car has overlap.
O-6: Ahead drivers have the right to take any line through a corner, unless an opposing car has overlap.
He didn't have overlap. If he had, this wouldn't have happened. see my comments above.

Oh...wait - isn't this what happened to me? Thanks for pointing this one out.


I didn't make a premature direction change - he made a premature attempt to pass.
I didn't crowd him towards either side of the track - he didn't have overlap.

The Schumacher incident is indeed interesting, but it seems the problem here was that he made 2 moves to defend, thus becoming a block.
You can't say my driving was in any way as seen in that example. I wasn't swerving for a start.


Unless they aren't in a GT car, in which case they simply get knocked off the track...

Your stated intent to push drivers out of your way is the wrong attitude. And if you find this thread a waste of time, simply don't read or post in it.


I just wanted an explanation from Yek about why my race was ended by his action, and if it was just a mistake, then fair enough. It just didn't seem that way.
It's interesting, and very sad, seeing all the opinions from certain drivers who seem to think it's ok to crash other cars out of the way. It isn't. Read and understand the rules...


Edit:

I didn't do this blindly. This was lap 3 & there were 4 GT2 cars behind me at this point (5 if you add Nils just moments earler...) and one only just ahead. The 'faster' class clearly wasn't doing all that well on this combo, so I expected to not lose time by staying ahead in those turns & not compromising my right to the corner.
I didn't cause the accident, unless you are going to claim that it is because my car was on the track & in front of another?
Looking back at Yek's race, I especthe was annoyed at having been held up unfairly by another driver earlier in this race, so was intent on staying ahead of Harvey. That is the probably explanation, and he isn't a bad driver, but that does not excuse crashing.

What most of you seem to be saying is that everyone must move out of the way of higher class cars, otherwise the higher class car has the right to crash them out of the way. Is that correct? If so, then we need to amend the rules.

You really don't get it, do you?
No, you must not move out of the way to higher class.
But also, you should not BLOCK them, as this is what you did, this is what you said yourself - by 'defending your position'.. against what? Car in different class?
What's next, 'defending position' in TBO against GT2?

He was in different class.
Two of you had no race between each other.
There was no need to try and block him.
You did, it ended bad, as he expected to be able to pass you there.

He did need to apologize for your spin, but it's not like you're not at fault at all. If you took proper racing line, as one needs to to enter next corners, this wouldn't have happened.

Kiyoshi, you are abiding by the rules after all, but common sense here states that you should not have blocked him. In any case, he had no justification to hit you... But he had little time to react.