I thought I'd come for some fun on the server. I got wrecked deliberately.

Replay: http://www.cargame.nl/dl.php?id=344410

Turns full into me right, then flick left to 'finish me off'.

The incident happens at 11:30 into the race, if anyone don't want to browse through the race themselves.

Oh sorry, forgot to write that.

In the hairpin he makes room for a second car and you got a bit too wide.

The touch directly afterwards:
He gave you the line on the wall. You were sliding. Touch.

You got wrecked by yourself.


Did you even watch it? You complain a lot about faster guys forcing their way. You both entered the hairpin right next to each other. You took all the hairpin. All of it. And you accuse him of deliberately steering into you? I accuse you of deliberatly thinking you are the king owning all of the hairpin. Forcing your way through.

You mess it up to accelerate out of the corner. Going into a slight. What do you think happens? You get smaller? He instantly recognizes it and starts sliding as well?
Where should he steer when you cross the line after the touch? To the right where you will slide?

Sorry but you are nothing better than all of us including the GT2 drivers you complain about in other threads. You screwed it up in the hairpin and the slide out of the corner. Racing incident with your fault. Get over it. Watch it again. And learn from it.

Ok, I watched the replay.

@Kiyoshi: You were very aggressive and didn't leave him much room. The first touch was a mistake you could have avoided. I think he got pissed off by your aggressive move, but he should have lifted off the throttle. That's where he was at fault, he messed you up in the end... But if you had messed up his race, he could have put a report here and would have had reason to.

@eXeYn: Please stop the interclass bickering, this is really getting boring now. I think you should stop watching reports by Kiyoshi as both of you have quarrelled in the past and thus I woudl consider your view as impartial (as your description of the incident shows). Let it go, man.

@mtrein: I suppose you mean partial. My description shows the questions kiyoshi should have asked himself while watching the replay. You said the same in nicer words.




Not nice to stay on throttle. But kiyoshi would have spun nonetheless. The first initial hit was quite heavy and no way he would have catched it while staying on full throttle.


And of course am I judging him on his own standards. He complains about the same driving style he does. Considering this incident I think it's a damn whole farce of him.

Was there a sentence written somewhere that goes something like: "it is responsibility of the faster car to make a clean overtake..."? You should've waited for him to go through the corner and then safely pass him on the straight instead of crashing him twice there, therefore it is completely your fault!

Oh wait........ I sound like those guys who constantly complain about all GT2 drivers being overly aggressive , shame on me!

Yup, that's right, thanks for correcting





Yup, he would have spun nonetheless, but I doubt the other driver could have guessed. Even I had to watch the replay twice to be sure just now. Still, never got his foot off the throttle, and that makes him guilty for the report. But I don't believe this is serious enough for a ban, given the circumstances.

@Kiyoshi: Fundamentally, this was a race incident which could have been avoided by yourself. At first he did give you room, but you kind of squashed him, made contact, and I believed he got pissed off (and rightly so). Still, not lifting is unjustified. But I don't believe this calls for punishment... If I were in your shoes, I would have questioned him not lifting the throttle but would have apologised for the aggressive move at the same time.

@Sermilan: You're not aggregating any value at all with your post, let's stop this class x versus class y bullshit, please. Come on, I know you're a mature enough guy

I'm afraid you're knocking on the wrong door. I asked the same tenths of times, but accusations just kept on coming. Did you write this also to the threads where all GT2 class drivers were under criticism?

You asked the same thing I'm asking and then started doing exactly what you were asking people not to do? Why?

I've never complained about anyone driving the way I did here. Please stop following me around & trolling. It's getting weird. Don't claim you know my standards either, you clearly don't.

I had full rights to that corner. I had already passed him on the straight & had full overlap on the inside at the turn-in point. Here are the rules:rules.
In the middle of the turn, he turned into the back end of my car with full lock, knocking it 1/2 it's width to the right, causing me to lose some control (of course).
He best choice then was still to go to the right - my car was fully to his left & I was already correctinmg the slide, but he chose to steer into my car again with full throttle.

Yes, my pass of him down the hill was rough - that was my mistake, but It didn't harm his race. I DIDN'T drive with full throttle into the back of his car, causing him to spin, for example. I even left room for him on the left for his later braking. I would have apologised if it was necessary, but I didn't exactly get the chance before he wrecked me.

Obviously, to give an example of how annoying it can be

I know that is the reason, just as I did when I asked you the question. What I am trying to point out here is that this is wholly unnecessary - people look up to drivers such as yourself. You should be helping us set a standard, not confronting it like that. You can do better.

Did you read the rules?
O-2: The car on the outside has the right to outside room all the way through the corner - right up to the exit point. That car should not be squeezed against the outside towards the exit point.

CT-2: If a driver has breached one of the Rules of Racing, and has resulted in contact and/or a time or position advantage. That driver must apologize, and forfeit the position to the affected driver. If the affected driver is unable to continue, sufficient action should be encouraged at the Server Admin's discretion.

Now explain me where you have left him room on the outside? Where is your apology?


No I complain about you doing the same stuff you so persistently condemn.


Wrong!! Read the rules you love.


Dude how can you ignore that this happened because of your own mistake?

Right before contact happens. He was always beside you. No way you can just go straight through this corner blocking both lines. Also you have to keep in mind that he probably has to steer blindly. You messed up the braking. Ridiculous to assume he did that on porpuse.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/72/hairpin.jpg/

Right before contact happens. Oh no he really leaves you room. Unfair? I call it unfair that you're front is in his line. You're about to reach 45�. Now tell me how he rams you intentionally if you are the one suddenly sliding into his line.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/9/topbim.jpg/

Right before contact happens. Ok wow you are still on full throttle plus not yet steering enough to catch it. Do you think you're car will instantly be straight again or oversteer further?
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/585/1std.jpg/

You should report yourself for that. Despite that he "could" have lifted (though you would still have spun) the fault is yours. But no you have to accuse him of deliberate wrecking.

Exeyn. Comment on the above report, by all means, but this is starting to look like a personal attack on me. I'm asking you again to stop that please.

Just for the record, I read your comments carefully & I disagree with them entirely. I didn't break any rules here. My car was ahead, as your picture shows & he wasn't pushed into any walls.

You got me there, you b*&%# , can't continue trolling any more after what you said

kiyoshi I'm going to share a folk wisdom with you "If more than two people say that your drunk, then you really are". I hope you understand because what you are doing is miss-placed anger.

I'm not angry.

You still don't read a thing. I commented on the report.
Hairpin: You didn't give him the outside. You went straight blocking two lines. Not respecting the rules! Your car was ahead but still next to each other. And for some drivers: In his position you have to rely on the guy on the inside because you're steering blindly.
Exit: You spin! Seriously why do you ignore that? You spin! The crash is unavoidable from him. You could have avoided it.

One of those nonsense reports where the incident is nothing more than a racing incident. You are just too stubborn.

Sadly, your wisdom is clearly open to corruption.

My wisdom is that you never could make that corner in a fast way with the chosen angle of approach and loss of entry speed. It would be different if you overtook him correctly in the first place, but, due to some miscalculation you cutted his path while overtaking.

The same happens basically after the corner, you throw your car in front of him by steering too much to the right.

All I can say is, you really wanted that position don't you? Because if you didn't, why make such a big discussion from it. The time that this has costed, you happily could have done at least two full extra races. If this person really crashes on purpose it will show up over time..Funny thing is that if you stayed behind him you could easily pass after the corner and get that position you wanted. UFB is faster in the corners but a LX4 accelerates faster and has a higher top speed. Racing is also a bit of tactics and that, normally, makes it fun.

Ok, so in your opinion, I should have waited behind him from where I passed him, half way up the straight, until after this corner?

The reason I made this report is that he deliberately turned into my car 2 times here. He did have a pretty rough race & was probably annoyed, including when I caught the front of his car while passing, but that isn't a good excuse to take it out on me. These things happen far too often. There is far to much deliberate unfair hitting & crashing. It's no fun having 1 clean race & 3 where you're hit off the track or spun. If it's accidental, then that's fine, but to me, this looks delibrate.

Where my car was at entry to the turn, he did have room on the outside - look how far it is to the edge of the track on his left, but he chose to turn into the back of my car with full lock. If he'd carried on making the turn as he started it, all would have been fine - we both would have made it through the corner cleanly. There was no need for him to use full lock there, other than to hit my car. Him hitting my car sideways caused the loss of control, but if I somehow managed to throw my car in front of his, as you say, how come he had to steer to the left towards me in order to hit me the second time?

If you are still going to insist that this is all my fault, and I should expect people to deliberately crash into me & just put up with it, then please say so. I know you don't like to enforce rules or whatever, and probably hope that people will see reason through discussion, and that standards of racing on the server should be decided by the way the majority behave. If that's the case, then it's sad that so many think it's fine to crash people out of their way.

Excuse me you seriously think the outside line is near the hay? So him using full lock to do the corner is forbidden but you barge passing is ok. You didn't make it cleanly through the corner you just planted the whole car blocking every line. BTW he did not apply full lock early on. And that beginners and even pro's steer sometimes way too much is not a mystery


Dude watch it!!!
After the first touch your car is directly in front of him pointing directly to the right side. Your car is driving to the right so he should steer to the right? Come on think it through.



He is not deliberately crashing you.
Racing incident.
If you can't control your car and persist it was his fault we should expect that a touch with you means it's our fault and never yours regardless how many say it was yours?

It's sad that so many don't see the limitations a field of view and a simulation have.


What are you talking about? You losing control of your own car caused the collision in the first place. If he had steered to the right afterwards I would have taken into consideration a deliberate 2nd touch. I come even more to the conclusion that he just steered left to counteract the impact of your crash.

How come you are the only one who can't differentiate between a racing incident and a deliberate crash?


Why do you still try to discuss if everything is already lost?


Since when are the standards defined by how the majority behaves? How did you make that up? Admins take action where it's necessary. In the past, present and the future like it has always been done. If the majority behaves like the standards then I would take that as a compliment to the admins! and to the drivers.


So that means it is not the case because noone thinks it's fine to crash people. It's only your imagination that leads you to believe this...

eXeYn dude...you need to spend more time doing something else & not following me around. I was asking Dave some questions here, not you.
You are also getting less & less polite & I'm asking you to please stop that. Seeing as you have nothing to do with this incident whatsoever, that is really unecessary, as is swearing at me.

Your thread is the only active one. But yeah that must mean I'm following you around. ROFL.

You definitely can't stand criticism. This thread is open for discussion. Noone of us was being stopped by an admin. So why shouldn't we post? I'm not swearing at you.

You just ignore everything. You never take into consideration that it could be your fault. Neither here nor in the other thread.

eXeYn, in this and the other thread, you argue that black is white. That doesn't make it so. See the example above. I don't know what you have against me, but your arguments don't appear to be based on fact, just that 'kiyoshi is wrong'. I've said all I need to about the incident, and as expected, nobody really cares, so I've no idea what you are trying to acheive by going on & on about it.

I'm gonna edit out the "fuck" just for you though "what the fuck" is a pretty accepted term for replying to something ridiculous. I'm pretty sure you wanna take back you accusing me of being a troll?

That's a misconception. Just because most disagree to your statement doesn't mean they don't care.
Somehow it's not a big surprise that you don't understand the concept of a forum, discussion and arguments.

Well, you'd be wrong then. I think you've uneccessarily and repeatedly overstated your case. If you had an opinion you only need say so once. Saying things like:

is prejudice. That's more of a personal attack than an opinion on a racing event. If you've got a problem with me personally, then either get over it, or PM me so we can sort it out. I come to LFS for fun and I'm sure you do too, not to have pointless bickering.


OK, I'm trying not to be sarcastic, but I'll spell this out really clearly for you...
This is the reports sub-forum for the S2 server. It's for racers to report - to the server admins - something that has happened on the server which they believe to be unfair, against the server rules or against the natural laws of the universe, etc.
Anyone is entitled to post an opinion in here, but really, only the opinions or decisions of the server admins really matter. Dave has posted, and I'm fairly sure he isn't particularily concerned about what happened to my race. If Dave thinks it's a race incident, then as far as the server is concerned, it is. I expect he's even less concerned with reading our opinions several times over. Hence why I said 'nobody really cares'.

As for discussion & argument: I stated what I believed happened, and you stated what you believed happened, albeit embellished with predictions of the future & apparent knowledge of my thoughts.
If I don't agree with you, and you don't agree with me, then our 'discussion' ends there. There is really no point in repeating yourself over & over. Neither do I have to answer any of your questions.
That's my understanding of the concept of this particular forum - the cargame S2 reports forum.

Now, stop making ridiculous accusations of me, and, once again, if you have a problem with me personally, the offer is open to resolve it.

Uhm you repeat yourself aswell so ... stop trolling.

Dave stated his opinions yet you make the incidents still a witch-hunt against you.

You get the opinions of drivers yet you don't care.

You tell Mike his wisdom is open to corruption.

A large portion of my arguments states facts not interpretation yet you ignore them.

Whether you wanna think or answer about my questions is up to you yet it would greatly improve recognizing what went wrong in an incident.

So you choose to accuse everyone of wanting to crash. That's not a bit ridiculous.

I'm afraid the evidence of reality vs. what you think is real is here staring you in the face.
I have never said everyone wants to crash.
Please don't accuse me of saying things which are not true.
And please don't imagine you know what I am thinking.
I've tried to reason with you, but you can consider yourself ignored from now on.

Everyone and so many doesn't make that much of a difference on the message you deliver nor on the insulting itself.
Please don't imagine you know what I am thinking. And please don't imagine that I know what you are thinking.
I and many different drivers tried to reason with you but you can consider yourself as incredibly stubborn. The passion with which you ignore every point and argument of every person in this thread is remarkable but definitely not desirable. Putting this incident in the light of a deliberate crash and reporting it is the most funniest and hilarious thing I've ever seen.

Final word

TROLL

I knew that already

Totally uncalled for, eXeYn

@topic: I'm thinking that next time Speedy or Dave sees this thread they will lock it. I don't think there is anything else to add here.

BORED NOW!

The circle is fully formed and we're digging a rut going round in it.

Dave / Speedy - Anyone with the powERRRRRRR!!! (Heman, cmon!) have the final word & verdict then lock, please!?!

either that or a stern finger wagging is in order.

Well both Kiyoshi and Exeyn say that they are done so maybe this thread is locked by two exhausted members themselves

Well I suggest to eXeYn to just leave it alone because a discussion with kiyoshi feels to me like a discussion with a women, long, pointless and mole hills turned into mountains. Best thing to do is to close this kinda things, again.

I like to ad because I feel I was miss-understood, this is a cola, not whiskey, thank you

Mike, to be fair, I didn't invite him to come here. I think he got what he came for...

And in return for your wisdom, some other, which we all should know: Woman is always right.

That's a good close to a topic if I ever saw one